A Woman Is Talking to Death
One
Testimony in trials that never got heard
my lovers teeth are white geese flying above me
my lovers muscles are rope ladders under my hands
we were driving home slow
my love and I, across the long Bay Bridge,
one February midnight, when midway
over in the far left lane, I saw a strange scene:
one small young man standing by the rail,
and in the lane itself, parked straight across
as if it could stop anything, a large young
man upon a stalled motorcycle, perfectly
relaxed as if he’d stopped at a hamburger stand;
he was wearing a peacoat and levis, and
he had his head back, roaring, you
could almost hear the laugh, it
was so real.
“Look at that fool,” I said, “in the
middle of the bridge like that,” a very
womanly remark.
Then we heard the meaning of the noise
of metal on a concrete bridge at 50
miles an hour, and the far left lane
filled up with a big car that had a
motorcycle jammed on its front bumper, like
the whole thing would explode, the friction
sparks shot up bright orange for many feet
into the air, and the racket still sets
my teeth on edge.
When the car stopped we stopped parallel
and Wendy headed for the callbox while I
ducked across those 6 lanes like a mouse
in the bowling alley. “Are you hurt?” I said,
the middle-aged driver had the greyest black face,
“I couldn’t stop, I couldn’t stop, what happened?”
Then I remembered. “Somebody,” I said, “was on
the motorcycle.” I ran back,
one block? two blocks? the space for walking
on the bridge is maybe 18 inches, whoever
engineered this arrogance, in the dark
stiff wind it seemed I would
be pushed over the rail, would fall down
screaming onto the hard surface of
the bay, but I did not, I found the tall young man
who thought he owned the bridge, now lying on
his stomach, head cradled in his broken arm.
He had glasses on, but somewhere he had lost
most of his levis, where were they?
and his shoes. Two short cuts on his buttocks,
that was the only mark except his thin white
seminal tubes were all strung out behind; no
child left in him; and he looked asleep.
I plucked wildly at his wrist, then put it
down; there were two long haired women
holding back the traffic just behind me
with their bare hands, the machines came
down like mad bulls, I was scared, much
more than usual, I felt easily squished
like the earthworms crawling on a busy
sidewalk after the rain; I wanted to
leave. And met the driver, walking back.
“The guy is dead.” I gripped his hand,
the wind was going to blow us off the bridge.
“Oh my God,” he said, “haven’t I had enough
trouble in my life?” He raised his head,
and for a second was enraged and yelling,
at the top of the bridge—”I was just driving
home!” His head fell down. “My God, and
now I’ve killed somebody.”
I looked down at my own peacoat and levis,
then over at the dead man’s friend, who
was howling and blubbering, what they would
call hysteria in a woman. “It isn’t possible”
he wailed, but it was possible, it was
indeed, accomplished and unfeeling, snoring
in its peacoat, and without its levis on.
He died laughing: that’s a fact.
I had a woman waiting for me,
in her car and in the middle of the bridge,
I’m frightened, I said.I’m afraid, he said,
stay with me, be
my witness—”No,” I said, “I’ll be your
witness—later,” and I took his name
and number, “but I can’t stay with you,
I’m too frightened of the bridge, besides
I have a woman waiting
and no license—
and no tail lights—”
So I left—
as I have left so many of my lovers.
we drove home
shaking. Wendy’s face greyer
than any white person’s I have ever seen.
maybe he beat his wife, maybe he once
drove taxi, and raped a lover
of mine—how to know these things?
we do each other in, that’s a fact.
who will be my witness?
death wastes our time with drunkenness
and depression
death, who keeps us from our
lovers.
he had a woman waiting for him,
I found out when I called the number,
days later
“Where is he,” she said, “he’s disappeared.”
“He’ll be all right,” I said, “we could
have hit the guy as easy as anybody, it
wasn’t anybody’s fault, they’ll know that,”
women so often say dumb things like that,
they teach us to be sweet and reassuring,
and say ignorant things, because we don’t invent
the crime, the punishment, the bridges
that same week I looked into the mirror
and nobody was there to testify;
how clear, an unemployed queer woman
makes no witness at all,
nobody at all was there for
those two questions:......what does
she do, and who is she married to?
I am the woman who stopped on the bridge
and this is the man who was there
our lovers teeth are white geese flying
above us, but we ourselves are
easily squished.
keep the woman small and weak
and off the street, and off the
bridges, that’s the way, brother
one day I will leave you there,
as I have left you there before,
working for death.
we found out later
what we left him to.
Six big policemen answered the call,
all white, and no child in them.
they put the driver up against his car
and beat the hell out of him.
What did you kill that poor kid for?
you mutherfucking nigger.
that’s a fact.
Death only uses violence
when there is any kind of resistance,
the rest of the time a slow
weardown will do.
They took him to 4 different hospitals
til they got a drunk test report to fit their
case, and held him five days in jail
without a phone call.
how many lovers have we left.
there are as many contradictions to the game,
as there are players.
a woman is talking to death,
though talk is cheap, and life takes a long time
to make
right. He got a cheesy lawyer
who had him cop a plea, 15 to 20
instead of life. Did I say life?
the arrogant young man who thought he
owned the bridge, and fell asleep on it
he died laughing: that’s a fact.
the driver sits out his time
off the street somewhere,
does he have the most vacant of
eyes, will he die laughing?
Two
They don’t have to lynch the women anymore
death sits on my doorstep
cleaning his revolver
death cripples my feet and sends me out
to wait for the bus alone,
then comes by driving a taxi.
the woman on our block with 6 young children
has the most vacant of eyes
death sits in her bedroom, loading
his revolver
they don’t have to lynch the women
very often anymore, although
they used to—the lord and his men
went through the villages at night, beating &
killing every woman caught
outdoors.
the European witch trials took away
the independent people; two different villages—
after the trials were through that year—
had left in them, each—
one living woman:
one
What were those other women up to? had they
run over someone? stopped on the wrong bridge?
did they have teeth like
any kind of geese, or children
in them?
Three
This woman is a lesbian be careful
In the military hospital where I worked
as a nurse’s aide, the walls of the halls
were lined with howling women
waiting to deliver
or to have some parts removed.
One of the big private rooms contained
the general’s wife, who needed
a wart taken off her nose.
we were instructed to give her special attention
not because of her wart or her nose
but because of her husband, the general.
As many women as men die, and that’s a fact.
At work there was one friendly patient, already
claimed, a young woman burnt apart with X-ray,
she had long white tubes instead of openings;
rectum, bladder, vagina—I combed her hair, it
was my job, but she took care of me as if
nobody’s touch could spoil her.
ho ho death, ho death
have you seen the twinkle in the dead woman’s eye?
When you are a nurse’s aide
someone suddenly notices you
and yells about the patient’s bed,
and tears the sheets apart so you
can do it over, and over
while the patient waits
doubled over in her pain
for you to make the bed again
and no one ever looks at you,
only at what you do not do
Here, general, hold this soldier’s bed pan
for a moment, hold it for a year—
then we’ll promote you to making his bed.
we believe you wouldn’t make such messes
if you had to clean up after them.
that’s a fantasy.
this woman is a lesbian, be careful.
When I was arrested and being thrown out
of the military, the order went out: dont anybody
speak to this woman, and for those three
long months, almost nobody did; the dayroom, when
I entered it, fell silent til I had gone; they
were afraid, they knew the wind would blow
them over the rail, the cops would come,
the water would run into their lungs.
Everything I touched
was spoiled. They were my lovers, those
women, but nobody had taught us how to swim.
I drowned, I took 3 or 4 others down
when I signed the confession of what we
had done together.
No one will ever speak to me again.
I read this somewhere; I wasn’t there:
in WW II the US army had invented some floating
amphibian tanks, and took them over to
the coast of Europe to unload them,
the landing ships all drawn up in a fleet,
and everybody watching. Each tank had a
crew of 6 and there were 25 tanks.
The first went down the landing planks
and sank, the second, the third, the
fourth, the fifth, the sixth went down
and sank. They weren’t supposed
to sink, the engineers had
made a mistake. The crews looked around
wildly for the order to quit,
but none came, and in the sight of
thousands of men, each 6 crewmen
saluted his officers, battened down
his hatch in turn, and drove into the
sea, and drowned, until all 25 tanks
were gone. did they have vacant
eyes, die laughing, or what? what
did they talk about, those men,
as the water came in?
was the general their lover?
Four
A Mock Interrogation
Have you ever held hands with a woman?
Yes, many times—women about to deliver, women about to
have breasts removed, wombs removed, miscarriages, women
having epileptic fits, having asthma, cancer, women having
breast bone marrow sucked out of them by nervous or in-
different interns, women with heart condition, who were
vomiting, overdosed, depressed, drunk, lonely to the point
of extinction: women who had been run over, beaten up.
deserted, starved. women who had been bitten by rats; and
women who were happy, who were celebrating, who were
dancing with me in large circles or alone, women who were
climbing mountains or up and down walls, or trucks or roofs
and needed a boost up, or I did; women who simply wanted
to hold my hand because they liked me, some women who
wanted to hold my hand because they liked me better than
anyone.
These were many women?
Yes. many.
What about kissing? Have you kissed any women?
I have kissed many women.
When was the first woman you kissed with serious feeling?
The first woman ever I kissed was Josie, who I had loved at
such a distance for months. Josie was not only beautiful,
she was tough and handsome too. Josie had black hair and
white teeth and strong brown muscles. Then she dropped
out of school unexplained. When she came she came
back for one day only, to finish the term, and there was a
child in her. She was all shame, pain, and defiance. Her eyes
were dark as the water under a bridge and no one would
talk to her, they laughed and threw things at her. In the
afternoon I walked across the front of the class and looked
deep into Josie’s eyes and I picked up her chin with my
hand, because I loved her, because nothing like her trouble
would ever happen to me, because I hated it that she was
pregnant and unhappy, and an outcast. We were thirteen.
You didn’t kiss her?
How does it feel to be thirteen and having a baby?
You didn’t actually kiss her?
Not in fact.
You have kissed other women?
Yes, many, some of the finest women I know, I have kissed.
women who were lonely, women I didn’t know and didn’t
want to, but kissed because that was a way to say yes we are
still alive and loveable, though separate, women who recog-
nized a loneliness in me, women who were hurt, I confess to
kissing the top a 55 year old woman’s head in the snow in
Boston, who was hurt more deeply that I have ever been
hurt, and I wanted her as a very few people have wanted
me—I wanted her and me to own and control and run the
city we lived in, to staff the hospital I know would mistreat
her, to drive the transportation system that had betrayed
her, to patrol the streets controlling the men who would
murder or disfigure or disrupt us, not accidentally with
machines, but on purpose, because we are not allowed out
on the street alone—
Have you ever committed any indecent acts with women?
Yes, many. I am guilty of allowing suicidal women to die
before my eyes or in my ears or under my hands because I
thought I could do nothing, I am guilty of leaving a prosti-
tute who held a knife to my friend’s throat to keep us from
leaving, because we would not sleep with her, we thought
she was old and fat and ugly; I am guilty of not loving her
who needed me; I regret all the women I have not slept with
or comforted, who pulled themselves away from me for lack
of something I had not the courage to fight for, for us, our
life, our planet, our city, our meat and potatoes, our love.
These are indecent acts, lacking courage, lacking a certain
fire behind the eyes, which is the symbol, the raised fist, the
sharing of resources, the resistance that tells death he will
starve for lack of the fat of us, our extra. Yes I have com-
mitted acts of indecency with women and most of them were
acts of omission. I regret them bitterly.
Five
Bless this day oh cat our house
“I was allowed to go
3 places growing up,” she said—
“3 places, no more.
there was a straight line from my house
to school, a straight line from my house
to church, a straight line from my house
to the corner store.”
her parents thought something might happen to her.
but nothing ever did.
my lovers teeth are white geese flying above me
my lovers muscles are rope ladders under my hands
we are the river of life and the fat of the land
death, do you tell me I cannot touch this woman?
if we use each other up
on each other
that’s a little bit less for you
a little bit less for you, ho
death, ho ho death.
Bless this day oh cat our house
help me be not such a mouse
death tells the woman to stay home
and then breaks in the window.
I read this somewhere, I wasn’t there:
In feudal Europe, if a woman committed adultery
her husband would sometimes tie her
down, catch a mouse and trap it
under a cup on her bare belly, until
it gnawed itself out, now are you
afraid of mice?
Six
Dressed as I am, a young man once called
me names in Spanish
a woman who talks to death
is a dirty traitor
inside a hamburger joint and
dressed as I am, a young man once called me
names in Spanish
then he called me queer and slugged me.
first I thought the ceiling had fallen down
but there was the counterman making a ham
sandwich, and there was I spread out on his
counter.
For God’s sake, I said when
I could talk, this guy is beating me up
can’t you call the police or something,
can’t you stop him? he looked up from
working on his sandwich, which was my
sandwich, I had ordered it. He liked
the way I looked. “There’s a pay phone
right across the street” he said.
I couldn’t listen to the Spanish language
for weeks afterward, without feeling the
most murderous of rages, the simple
association of one thing to another,
so damned simple.
The next day I went to the police station
to become an outraged citizen
Six big policemen stood in the hall,
all white and dressed as they do
they were well pleased with my story, pleased
at what had gotten beat out of me, so
I left them laughing, went home fast
and locked my door.
For several nights I fantasized the scene
again, this time grabbing a chair
and smashing it over the bastard’s head,
killing him. I called him a spic, and
killed him. My face healed, his didn’t
no child in me.
now when I remember I think:
maybe he was Josie’s baby.
all the chickens come home to roost.
all of them.
Seven
Death and disfiguration
One Christmas eve my lovers and I
we left the bar, driving home slow
there was a woman lying in the snow
by the side of the road. She was wearing
a bathrobe and no shoes, where were
her shoes? she had turned the snow
pink, under her feet, she was an Asian
woman, didn’t speak much English, but
she said a taxi driver beat her up
and raped her, throwing her out of his
care.
what on earth was she doing there
on a street she helped to pay for
but doesn’t own?
doesn’t she know to stay home?
I am a pervert, therefore I’ve learned
to keep my hands to myself in public
but I was so drunk that night,
I actually did something loving
I took her in my arms, this woman,
Until she could breathe right, and
my friends who are perverts too
they touched her toowe all touched her.
“You’re going to be all right”
we lied. She started to cry
“I’m 55 years old” she said
and that said everything.
Six big policemen answered the call
no child in them.
they seemed afraid to touch her,
then grabbed her like a corpse and heaved her
on their metal stretcher into the van,
crashing and clumsy.
She was more frightened than before.
they were cold and bored.
‘don’t leave me’ she said.
‘she’ll be all right’ they said.
we left, as we have left all of our lovers
as all lovers leave all lovers
much too soon to get the real loving done.
Eight
a mock interrogation
Why did you get in the cab with him, dressed as you are?
I wanted to go somewhere.
Did you know what the cab driver might do
if you got into the cab with him?
I just wanted to go somewhere.
How many times did you
get into the cab with him?
I dont remember.
If you dont remember, how do you know it happened to you?
Nine
Hey you death
ho and ho poor death
our lovers teeth are white geese flying above us
our lovers muscles are rope ladders under our hands
even though no women yet go down to the sea in ships
except in their dreams.
only the arrogant invent a quick and meaningful end
for themselves, of their own choosing.
everyone else knows how very slow it happens
how the woman’s existence bleeds out her years,
how the child shoots up at ten and is arrested and old
how the man carries a murderous shell within him
and passes it on.
we are the fat of the land, and
we all have our list of casualties
to my lovers I bequeath
the rest of my life
I want nothing left of me for you, ho death
except some fertilizer
for the next batch of us
who do not hold hands with you
who do not embrace you
who try not to work for you
or sacrifice themselves or trust
or believe you, ho ignorant
death, how do you know
we happened to you?
wherever our meat hangs on our own bones
for our own use
your pot is so empty
death, ho death
you shall be poor
Respond as usual then answer the questions:
Discussion Questions
“When I was praised for my conduct I felt guilt that in some way I was doing something that was really against the wishes of the white folks, that if they had understood they would have desired me to act just the opposite, that I should have been sulky and mean, and that that really would have been what they wanted, even though they were fooled and thought they wanted me to act as I did.”
From Ralph Ellison’s Invisible Man
1. In the quote above, the narrator alludes to the concept that when one in power denigrates another, that person also denigrates his or her own humanity. Do you see such a concept in “A Woman is Talking to Death” or do you see what feminist critic Christina Hoff Sommers calls the ‘corrosive paradox’ of feminism: waging war on men while at the same time denigrating the women who respect those men? Another way to put this question is thus: do you identify with the speaker or not? Explain your answer and include references to the Invisible Man and/or Fences.
2. What is the relationship between gender, race and class in this poem? In order to answer this question you will need to know the definition of gender.
3. The poem was published in 1974. What makes it important for its time, in the way Invisible Man was important for its time?
4. How does Grahn reverse and “disempower” conventional expectations in the segment A Mock Interrogation?
5. Which might be considered worse in terms of the “American Dream”: being limited by class, by race or by gender? In order to answer this question, you’ll need to define the “American dream.”
6. Does it matter that Grahn is Lesbian? Should it matter? If it does, then why?
28 comments:
A Woman Is Talking To Death
Author: Judy Grahn was born on July 28, 1940 in Chicago. She lived in New Mexico Town near West Texas. At the age of twenty five she wrote most of her stories and poetry. She has written many lesbian/feminist works.
Basic Passage: "I wanted her as a very few people have wanted me - I wanted her and me to own and control and run the city we lived in, to staff the hospital I know would mistreat her, to drive the transportationsystem that had betrayed her, to patrol the streets controllling the men would murder or disfigure or disrupt us, not accidentally with machines, but on purpose, because we are not allowed out on the street alone-"
Correlate: This author wants women to run the world and be in control. Because she thinks that the men that are in control are going to hurt and harm the women around them.
Tragedy: This poem is a tragedy.
Discussion Questions:
1. In the quote by Ellison, from "The Invisible Man" the character talks about acting a certain way because it was expected of him. Another quote tells more about racism. "We mean to do right by you, but you've got to know your place at all times. All right, now, go on with your speech. I was afraid. I wanted to leave but I wanted also to speak and I was afraid they'd snatch me down." This quote from "The Invisible Man" shows how the blacks were treated by the whites. Racism expressed in "The Invisible Man" is similar to the feminism expressed in "A Woman is Talking to Death" because both of these ideas tear people down. We are all a part of humanity and God created us all equal, both black and white and male and female.
2. In this poem the author talks about women being the weaker gender. The author feels that women are being put down and men and are treating them as lower class people.
3. During the years 1974 - 1980 there was great support for battered women. Support groups were appearing all over towns across America. It was a time when research was done by men for men and biological sex determined an individual's role in society. This first wave sought to include feminist voices and to give a new meaning to the science of feminism, sexuality and gender. In this poem "A Woman is Talking to Death" the author shows a symbolism towards denigrating women who respect men and a feministic approach towards society. While the author of the poem "The Invisible Man" discussed the topics of racism, religion, indivduality, and freedom, and their effect on society.
4. In the segment "A Mock Interrogation" the character is conducting an interview asking if a woman is a lesbian. Every time she answers the questions she twists the meaning around. The questions that they ask her try to infer that she is a lesbian. She turns the answer around to where it doesn't talk about being a lesbian - but talks about being kind to women.
5. The American Dream is a subjective term usually implying a successful and satisfying life. Perceptions of the American dream are usually framed in terms of American capitalism, and the freedoms guaranteed by the U.S. Bill of Rights. The term is not easily defined, and has subjective meaning to many who claim it. The term is used by many modern Americans to signify success in life as a result of hard work. If you are limited by class if will be hard to pursue this dream because you are torn down emotionally, physically and financially.
6. Yes it does matter. I don't agree with this lifestyle. She is writing from her own perspective and this give her impression of the culture around her a different slant.
1. The concept of one in power denigrating their own humanity when denigrating another's is evident in segment three where the general allows his men to die rather than taking a stand & ordering them to stop. In doing this he shows a lack of humanity & therefore becomes worth less than the value he attributed to his men because they respected & honored him enough to follow his orders knowing it would lead to their deaths. A similar situation occurs in "Fences" with Troy sabotaging Cory's opportunity to play ball without regard to its effect on his son.
2.The relationship between gender, race, & class in this poem is that they all influence the treatment of the individuals in the poem. The women are treated as though they are nothing because of their gender(& therefore class) & the man is treated with no humanity because of his race.
3.The dates of publication of "A Woman Is Talking To Death" (1974) & "Invisible Man" (1950s) are very important for their time because they were both written during times when the civil rights movement was undergoing changes. While written on seemingly different surface subjects (exploitation of African-Americans & mistreatment of women), the basic idea of both works is humanity & fair treatment.
4.Grahn reverses & disempowers conventional expectations in segment 8: a mock interrogation by telling of the woman's experience of having the police victimize her a 2nd time saying she invited the attack because of the way she was dressed & the fact that she went out instead of staying home where she "belonged".
5.The "American Dream", the ability to pursue self-improvement without prejudice from others, would be equally limited by class, race, & gender. Even with civil rights advancements to date, these three still influence the extent to which people can achieve their "American Dream".
6.It should not, but does, matter that Grahn is a lesbian because she can more fully & vividly demonstrate the suffering of those that have endured inhumane treatment & prejudice, having been a recipient of such hostile acts herself.
Title:A little humanity is too much to ask for?
Intro to Author:Judy Grahn (1940- ), a feminist poet, was born in an "economically poor & spiritually depressed" New Mexico town near the Texas border to working class parents. After a serious illness & resulting coma at the age of 25, she made the decision to devote everything she had to further her writing. In 1969 Grahn co-founded the Women's Press Collective & later took an active role in the Gay Women's Liberation Group. Though the style of Judy Grahn's writing has evolved her content has remained strictly political, particularly pertaining to lesbian culture & heterosexual social bias against it.
Basic Passage:"how clear, an unemployed queer woman makes no witness at all, nobody at all was there for those two questions: what does she do and who is she married to?"
Correlation:This passage very clearly demonstrates the powerlessness of the women in the poem. Not having equal rights & not having any worth in society's eyes are running themes in "A Woman Is Talking To Death", as well as racism, demonstrated earlier in segment one.
Tragedy:The women & black man have no worth in the eyes of society & are subject to many forms of cruelty. Humanity is apparently absent from those that victimize the very people they're supposed to be helping.
Comedy:The inhumane treatment inflicted on the women & black man causes as much damage to those doing the acts as those being acted upon, whether they realize it or not.
Difficulties:None.
Title
Acts of Omission
Author
born in 1940 in chicago. A lesbian and feminist, her work definatly reflects it.
Basic passage
...most of them were acts of omission. i regret them bitterly.
Correlation
this woman's accusers ask her if she has committed any homosexual acts with a another woman but she responds on a different plain. she means to say that she has failed to show love to those she came across who desperately needed to have human affection and she deeply regrets it. I can somewhat relate to what she says about acts of omission. Some of the things i regret were things that i didnt do. i wish i would have told her what i really felt about her before she moved. I wish i would have helped that guy push his stalled car out of the rode. i wish I would have done this or that, etc. but overall i choose not to relive my regrets. what can i do but learn from them and move on. to live a life full of shoulda, coulda, wouldas, is a sad way to live. Shoot... like kenney chesney's song "iwould of done alot of things diff"- i change the station everytime it comes on , terrible song.
Comedy
she recognizes her mistakes of omission
tragedy
she is sorry for not loving some but she is perfectly fine with absolutley hating others (men)
difficulties
weird poem
discussion questions
1. i see that when we attack the reputaion of another human saying that that person is not who they say they are is actually attacking themselves. A critical part of the fallen man is that he is a pretender, part of him remembers who he used to be, seated in heavenly places, and he therefore creates a false self trying to make up for what he has lost. a person may pretend to be some one he isnt in order to please man but we at hte same time value honesty and .long to be open about who he is deep down and express himself."they were fooled and THOUGHT they wanted me to act as I did."
2. the author suggests that white males dominate american society, woman are forced into a role of inferiority...for her if a woman repects a man and loves a man then she is a traitor
3. this was towards the end of the civilrights movement. iwoluldnt say it is nearly as important as invisible man because the race issue is much more justified than the point grahn attempts to make she spews hatred because she wants to blame men for her troubles or something lie that.
A Woman Is Talking To Death
Judy Grahn
Author: Judy Grahn was born in 1940. She is a feminst and a lesbian. Both of these things are reocurring in just about all of her poems.
Basic Passage-
"I couldn’t listen to the Spanish language
for weeks afterward, without feeling the
most murderous of rages"
Correlation-
I think that this is a great example of having something happen while doing something else that scars you for a while if not your life. For example i've gotten sick from mexican food before and for weeks afterward I could not even look or think about mexican food without getting sick. That is definately something that is very relavent to everyone. Everyone at one time has had that happen to them.
1. I feel as though this entire poem was in some way shape or form "bashing" men.
2. I don't think its a matter of race or class but gender. Judy Grahn being a feminst and a lesbian bascailly have the mindset that men are horrible
3. This poem being published in 1974 was really a important thing. Women at this point although they had the right to vote although they had basically everything that a man could they were still considered unequal.
Author: Judy Grahn was born in 1940 into a New Mexico town that was economically and spiritually decrepit. After illness and coma, she became devoted to writing and eventually became an active player in gay women’s liberation group.
Basic Passage: “This woman is a lesbian be careful”
Correlation: Ms. Grahn was a lesbian in a time before it was socially acceptable to be so. She saw oppression, and this made her perceptive to repression of all sorts. In the poem it is seen repression against gays, repression based on race, and repression of women. Unless I missed something, it would seem that she welcomes death as a necessary relief.
All that can be seen is tragedy, because that is all Ms. Grahn seems to see. The real tragedy is that Ms. Grahn has quite a bleak outlook on the world.
1. This is not like the invisible man, because the tragedy of the oppressors is not highlighted, only that of the oppressed.
2. White men with money are in charge of the world. This has been the status quo for a while. It’s probably not going to change anytime soon. Sometimes this means that women and non-whites get the short straw. Sometimes reality sucks.
3. Invisible man was important in its time because race was the hot button issue. A Woman Talking to Death was important because it was published during the sexual revolution.
4. Grahn gives her interrogator answers that he/she couldn’t have possibly prepared for, and that leave him/her frustrated, unaccomplished, and in pop culture terms “pwned”
5. In the equal opportunity myth of the American Dream, being born poor, or being a woman, or not being white are all equally limiting, because they make you different from the status quo of who is in charge.
6. Grahn being a lesbian matters because it is the catalyst to her being perceptive to oppression to the degree that she is.
Title: How does that make you feel?
Author: Born in 1940, Grahn has dedicated her life to her writing and has helped to found the gay rights movement, the lesbian-feminist movement, and women’s spirituality.
Basic Passage: “there are as many contradictions to the game as there are players. a woman is talking to death, though talk is cheap and life takes a long time to make right”
Correlation: I think talking to death could be a metaphor for any eminent, horrible thing that is going to happen to someone. It could be worrying about a failure, anxiety, depression, a loss. Anything that a person feels is inescapable, depressing. But it’s not the actual event that ruins a person’s life, it’s the waiting, the fear of what will happen that lasts a life time and stretches everyday into an unbearable, never-ending torture. The hopelessness and the loneliness that some of the characters feel in this poem show that. Bad things are going to happen, and how you deal with them before and after dictate how they will affect your life.
Tragedy: I think it’s a tragedy that this poem has to focus on the discrimination and mistreatment of women, ignoring the constant discrimination of the world focused on no one in particular.
Comedy: I don't see much comedy
1) I agree with the author, that what happens to a person is what they make of it. From “Invisible Man”, he said “I was asking everyone questions that only I knew the answer to”. You have to live your life, and you are the only one to answer to. How you choose to see the world and the things that happen in it define you.
2)
3)
4)
5) I think any restrictions would be bad limitation in the “American Dream”. Class because a person may have to lower their own standards to have a better life, and gender and race because they are not going to change, so a person must deal with what they are given.
6) It does matter, but only so much that it influences her beliefs and writings.
A Woman is Talking to Death
Judy Grahn
A. At the age of 25 Grahn wrote many stories and poetry based on feminism and lesbians after fighting a severe illness.
B. "Bless this day oh cat our house help me be not such a mouse
death tells the woman to stay home
and then breaks in the window."
C. Women have always been told for generations that they are the ones who stay at home and take care of the household and children. Grahn sees this as an attempt to keep them from harm but death still finds his way in.
D. Tragedy: The tragedy is the way she is treated and the humiliation she feels
Comedy: I'm not really sure of any comedy in here.
1. No I don't agree with the author. She seems to believe that men are inheritly evil. She is however mistreated because of her lifestyle. This is much like the theme of racism in the "Invisible Man."
2. These traits seem to determine how people treat each other. Grahn makes it appear that women are looked at as the weaker sex and thus inferior to men.
3. There are still some civil rights movements happening while also more and more womens rights events were popping up.
4. She answers their questions, just not in a way they thought she would. She turns it all around to make it seem like shes just a friendly woman.
5. The American dream is to succeed and be rich. Thats all anyone wants. It is totaly achievable however if one were limited by anything such as that it would be equally bad.
6. I don't agree with the lifestyle but I can't tell a person what to believe or how to live. What people do is their business.
1. I do not identify with the speaker. My feeling is not due to the corrosive paradox, because i don't see it as central in this poem, but is based on the author's hatred of men. Consider: Does Grahn's literary work denigrate men? And if so, how is that acceptable?
2. Gender is the role in which one identifies oneself. The issue in this poem is one of gender. Women should be able to hail a cab without fear of rape. This identifies with race because there was a point when African Americans, immigrants, and others were in similar situations over race.
3. This was near the height of the feminism movement. Shortly thereafter, women's jobs, education, and opinions became more acceptable.
4. She doesn't reference physical acts of promiscuity with other women. Instead she addresses her relationships in a loving manner, almost like poetry.
5. I would say that race and gender are equal. Class can be changed, but there is no escaping gender and race bias. Also the very phrase "American Dream" indicates a moving up in society (amongst classes).
6. It matters because it sheds light upon why she feels so strongly about men and feminism.
A Woman is Talking to Death
Author: Judy Grahn was born in 1940. She wrote many works on feminism. She lived in New Mexico.
Basic Passage: "Death sits on my doorstep cleaning his revolver, death cripples my feet and sends me out to wait for the bus alone, then comes by driving a taxi."
Correlate: Throughout this poem the author relates Death to men. Death is masculine, referred to as him or his. She never says that Death is men, rather that men are the instruments that Death uses to kill and oppress women.
Difficulties: The poem often changes scenes and timing with no warning and is sometimes hard to follow. And i don't remember if the author has a solution to the problem.
The story is a tragedy. It would be a comedy if women receive equality in the end or if men would stop doing Death's work.
Response to danielwise's post:
I think the point to the poem is not necessarily wanting women in control, but having people in positions of power that will not abuse that power & will treat everyone equally & without judgement.
1. I do not think this poem is about misandry. Grahn is mainly writing about wanting everyone to be treated with equality. And one reference to men being higher than women is the incident of the wreck. She reports a wreck where a man's testicles are laying across the highway. This shows the importance of men and that it was so important that it had to be stated exactly how it was seen.
2. Gender differences are influenced by culture and society. Power is also defined by your social class and race. The language throughout the play shows difference in gender, and the speaker because she is a poor, unemployed lesbian.
3. During 1974, it was the first wave of suffrage for women. Gay rights were also trying to be tied to the Civil Rights Movement.
4. Grahn reverses the questions in a way of showing care. She is aksed a question that would imply she is a lesbian, but she answers it with a normal response that any woman could say which shows loving and care.
5. All of these criteria(poor, race, gender) limit the American Dream. In order to accomplish the American Dream the best possibility would be that one would have to been born as an upper-class white male.
6. Yes it does matter. Grahn could be writing just from her point of view and not for the rest of us which are not lesbians.
Title: "A Woman Is Talking to Death"
Author: Judy Grahn
Judy Grahn was born in 1940, and is still living today. Her poetry focuses on the common woman and misandry, which is hatred of men. She is also a lesbian and a feminist.
Passage: "Look at that fool," I said, "in the middle of the bridge like that,"
Correlation: This passage atually deals with gender differences within the poem. This passage seems to be making a statement by the language it uses. The author is tryin to express her language in a way so that the reader can know a woman is talking. Only a woman would talk like that.
Response to K-dub: I agree with K-dub, its like the author is waiting on an event to happen. But sitting and waiting on it to happen feels like death because it is so painful. It could be referring to power. Womem will never be completely in power and waiting on this to happen will eventually lead to death.
1. The author makes some points on hatred of men but also points out that men have weaknesses also and that society is a power struggle. There isn't as much hatred of men as there is a hatred of power and the misuse of power. The issue is that mostly white males that have power abuse it and limit the rights of society. There are cases of men having weakness as in the bridge insident where the man is wailing and this would be seen as hysteria in a woman. This seen to me shows that she doesn't hate all men.
2. Well again the race, class, gender differences are based on a cultural idea of how everyone is suppost to act in society. This also referes to power and how it limits who can hold power and who gets rights. The white males seem to have power in "A Woman is Talking to Death" and in "The Invisible Man."
3. This was a time when there were more women's rights authors being published. The time period has women's rights and civil rights tied together in a way that everyone should be equal. The authors of gay and women's rights literature was starting to gain some popularity.
4. In the mock interigation the interigator asks some questions about the woman and her actions toward other women. The woman replies in a way that the interigator wasn't expecting. The answer to having held and women's hand was used in consoling women in pain or heartbreak instead of a romantic sort of way.
5. I see it as harder to live the American dream and be limited by race and gender. The opportunities for blacks are harder than if it was a white in things like appling for college, jobs, loans, ect. This also holds for women vs. men; men have more opportunities than women for higher pay and equal rights. So, by the "American Dream" the worst thing is to be a black women trying to make ends meet.
6. It only slightly matter cause it sort of puts a bias on her writing. If she wasn't a lesbian than she might have seen Death in a different light and then she might not have hated men.
Title: "A Woman Is Talking to Death"
Author: Judy Grahn
Judy Grahn is a working class women's and lesbian's right activist and has written many lesbain/feminist works. She has not been anthologied in literature books.
Basic Passage: "Death sits on my doorstep cleaning his revolver, death cripples my feet and sends me out to wait for the bus alone, then comes by driving a taxi."
Correlate: Death is seen as a man who has ultimate control and power over everyone but chooses to focus on women who are alone. Death is also seen as the enemy and if a women loves a man than she is a traitor and is sleeping with the enemy. I think that she never says that Death is the man in power in any city or country that she sees them as abusive with power.
'Some People Talk Too Much!' Judy Grahn is a writer of poems and stories-lesbian/feminist poems. BASIC PASSAGE: "Oh my God, he said, haven't I had enough trouble in my life?" CORRELATION: The narrator, or speaker in the poem, also, seems to have had a lot of trouble, and troubling times, in her life. She has had, at times, a very hard life. But then "life is never easy" so they say! DIFFICULTIES: This poem was very hard reading, very far removed from 'my' normal life, so I found it difficult reading because of that. The cause of human suffering, tragedy, is how the woman speaker is treated by the six big policemen and all the terrible things she experiences. The comedy would be if she had related, or had, one positive experience. To turn tragedy into comedy here it would require more, much more, compassion from those the woman speaker runs into in her life. DISCUSSION QUESTIONS: 1. I do not respond to the speaker; alternative lifestyles are beyond me! I have in my life acted to the approval of others, as the character in "Invisible Man", but after certain years in my life, and much living, I decided not to do that anymore, as much as I could. 2. The relationship between gender, race and class in this poem is that the speaker invokes all three in her poem, sometimes with things happening directly to her person, and sometimes through the life of another person. 3. It was important for its time because "lesbianism" was a four-letter word back then. You did not come out and get any support or recognition; you were ostracized and demonized and treated like you had a disease. 4. She disempowers by saying yes she has kissed a woman, but saying she did so while the women were going through what too many women go through-normal experiences; birth, miscarriages, breast removal; not saying yes she kissed a woman when they were getting intimate. 5. The American Dream is to have a loving and faithful wife or husband, 2.5 kids, a puppy, a white picket fence and a good job where you are happy and you make money. I would think women would answer gender and men might answer, differently. I think all three suck, but class for me. 6. It should not matter that Judy Grahn is a lesbian as she is still capable of writing poems and stories and/or whatever else she wants to do.
I do not agree with what vcguitarist said. I feel Judy Grahn lashes out at was caused her the most oppression in her life. We have read just one poem of hers, there are more. I don't think men-bashing is a normal lesbian trait; although to be very politically correct, or not, since I am not a lesbian, I do not know what they specifically think of men when they talk of men. On the other hand, I could definiatly speak with a bent towards man-bashing and talk from experience!
I agree with Creole and saying that everyone can relate to having regrets over the past and everyone can eventually move on. The only thing that really sucks about the past is reliving it and not moving on.
Creole makes a really good point. Everyone no matter who you are has regrets. We've all seen someone who needed help and just turned the other way without ever giving it another thought.
"A Woman Is Talking To Death"
Author: Judy Grahn
1. I think Grahn is trying to show the struggles with discrimination of gays. Just like Ellison was trying to show racism in “Invisible Man”.
2. Gender is influenced by culture and society. In this poem men are in control, they have power over women. Women were not allowed to do certain things. Grahn was a lesbian so this made everyone look down on her as the lowest class possible.
3. It was published towards the end of the Civil Rights Movement.
4. The interrogator tries to ask in depth questions but she changes it by answering the questions in a way that’s being connected to someone, but not in a sexually way.
5. The ideal American Dream is to be happy, have a successful life, and achieve ones goal. I think the American Dream could be worsen by class because if your lower class then you want have the opportunity to make better for yourself as would a person of higher class.
6. I think it matters that she is a lesbian back in that time because back then people didn’t talk about it. Society wasn’t open to it like they are today.
Grahn was born in 1940. She is an open lesbian and has written many lesbian feminist works.
Basic Passage: “ how clear, an unemployed queer woman makes no witness at all, nobody at all was there for those two questions: what does she do, and who is she married to?”
Correlation: To me this passage shows exactly how lower classes were treated. Higher-class people looked down on the lower classes. Also it shows how they didn't have equal rights.
Difficulties: None
i agree with vcguitarist. We all hold grudges, especially immediately following an offense. And it's human nature to form associations with experiences as the author does. The spanish language hasn't offended her; a latino man did. Oftentimes, we do the same thing by letting a dispute amongst two friends separate entire groups of people because one person associates the other person's friends with their rival.
1. When we pin point stuff about others we are really trying to get the attention off of ourselves and on to others. Like what Ellison said in the Invisible Man, “…That I am nobody but myself. But first I had to discover that I am an invisible man!” We have to find out whom we are deep down, before we can judge others.
2. The relationship between gender, race, and class in this poem is the fact that if you are in a high class you are able to do more in life. If you are a woman or black you did not have any rights compared to the white males, who were inferior to everyone else. They held the most power.
3. What makes this poem important for its time is the fact that it was written towards the end of the Civil Rights movement. It was also written during the Gay rights movement.
4. Grahn reverses and “disempowers” conventional expectations in the segment A Mock Interrogation, by answering everything that the interrogator asked in a way that confused the interrogator. Every answer that she gave the interrogator could take it in either a bad way or a good way. The interrogator assumes that this stuff is bad. But Grahn turns all the answers to where they aren’t sexually; just as if it was her brother or sister that she did these acts to.
5. The “American Dream” is when you have enough money to live happily. When you can go as for in your life as you want to. I think that class limits you the most to not being able to live the “American Dream.” I think this is because you can always be happy no matter how much money you have but you will always wonder how far you would have really gotten in life if you did have enough money.
6. It does matter that Grahn is a lesbian. This is what maker her who she is. Being who she is gives her things to write about.
Author: Judy Grahn
She was born in 1940 in Chicago. She is a feminist and a lesbian.
Basic passage: “Death only uses violence when there is any kind of resistance, the rest of the time a slow weardown will do.”
Correlation: I can relate to this passage by the fact that the devil works in the same way. When you feel like you are on top of the world he will find everything he can to bring you down and in a hurry. When I feel like I have everything in my life in order the devils is planning how to get me to my low point when I least expect it. He is always putting stuff in my life to bring me down and when he has me at my breaking point he gets out the big guns so to speak and pushes me over the edge.
Tragedy: That people look down on others that are different form them.
Comedy: I didn’t find a comedy in this poem.
I have to totally agree with creole. I am the same way I don't regret things i've done or the mistakes i've made. The thing is if you constantly worry about the things you could've done different you'll always be depressed and thats definately not the way to live life.
I agree with brook that the poem is NOT about misandry, because the oppression that Ms. Grahn sees really is there. During the time and context of its publication, the oppression she sees was DEFINATELY there. I still think it is sad that she does see past the oppression, there is more to the world.
to commment of k-dub said i belive that grahn is being somewhat selfish focusing only on the oppreswsion of women. There are millions upon millions of men women, and children of every nation tribe and tongue all over the world who are being oppressed.
I agree with pheurbel. At times I think life is filled with some hard, troubling times and life isn't always easy.
Judy Grahn
"I am Woman!"
Author:
Grahn was born July 1940. She is a lesbian and a feminist which greatly reflects in her work.
Basic Passages:
"a woman who talks to death
is a dirty traitor "
Correlation:
I think that this passage shows the gender difference in Grahn's story and the social power of one's gender. A woman did not have any power. Her voice doesn't get heard. Back then when a women did speak her mind and try to stand up for her, she was condidered a traitor to society.
Tragedy: How people are not treated equal. It could be a comedy by everyone respecting everyone.
1. Grahn's shows dicrimination among race, gender, and class, just how Ellison was trying to show too.
2.Grahn shows race, gender, and class conflicts in her story. The men had supreme power in the story where women were at the bottom.
3.It was important because it was at the end of the civil rights movement and Grahn was making lesbian an open subject for the time.
4.Grahn answers the questions by it sounding like it wasn't a crime to be a lesbian.
5.The American Dream can be defined as having the opportunity and freedom for all citizens to achieve their goals. I think that race and class are the worse. You can not change who you are and if you are in a low class, you will not have the chance to make better of yourself.
6.I don't think it matters. It is who she is and obviously she is proud of herself.
I also agree with Pheurbel. We sometimes get so caught up in our own lives and problems that we forget that there is probably someone that has it worst than us.
"A Women is Talking to Death"
Author: Judy Grahn was born July 28, 1940 in Chicago Illinois. Grahn knew at a young age that she was a poet but took many years to realize it. After being kicked out of the Air force for being a self admitted lesbian, she began to concentrate on her writing. She is not only a lesbian poet but also the founder of the modern feminist movement.
Basic Passage: "my lovers teeth are like white geese flying above me my lovers muscles are rope ladders under my hands"
This passage is reoccurring throughout the work. The work itself is in part misandrous but it also relates the oppression of women not only as a gender but more specifically those within the group whom have chosen to live outside of mans construct. This work embodies the fear and hatred felt by Grahn because she is looked upon with disgust just for being who she is. The basic passage is symbolic of the freedom Grahn feels with her lover. White geese flying evoke am image of open sky and what is freer than that. The lovers muscles are like rope ladders upon which she can climb out of the depth of her sadness and fear. When she is with her lover she is free to love and be loved openly. In the work the "lover" is androgynous, having no gender. This makes the work relatable either to male or female. Love is not bound by gender and neither will Grahn ever be.
Tragedy/Comedy: This work is tragic because of the closed minds Grahn and others like her have had to confront.
1 .In Ellison’s quote he speaks of acting a certain way because that how others expect you to act. Grahn speaks against this same thing. Ellison first had to discover he was an invisible man to discover who he thought he should be, Grahn came to the same realization at an early age and throughout her life has lived as who she is no matter what society thinks. She has had to overcome tremendous adversity to live her life as SHE expects herself to.
2. Gender, (being defined as ones sex) race, and class have some relationship in the work. Men at this time as the top of the food chain so to speak; to be more specific, white men. Then there is the black men followed by women who are put into one category weather white or black. It is during this time of struggle for women’s rights that Grahn is fighting for a place among society as an equal not only as a woman but as a gay woman which made things even worse.
3.1974 women are just gaining equal writes, but are still considered a lesser citizen in the eyes of men. Though the women’s rights movement is in full swing there is still a long way to go. Gay women are still seen as even less a person as women in general. They are scorned by not only men but heterosexual women as well.
4. In the mock interrogation Grahn admits to committing indecent acts with women, but these acts she says were “acts of omission.” To love another woman is not an indecent act to her, but to not love one who is in need of that love is indecent.
5. The American dream, house, kids marriage. Where in the American dream does it say any thing about gender? At the time this work was written it wouldn’t have been inconceivable for two women to have the American dream, it would have been looked down upon yes but not impossible. Today it is a common thing. There’s nothing wrong with it.
6. It doesn’t matter to me that Grahn is gay. In fact it makes her who she is as a writer. Her struggle has made her stronger and don’t you think if this isn’t who she really is and wants to be she would have given up and just married a man. It shouldn’t matter to anyone that she is lesbian. Her life is hers to live what ever way makes her happy. You don’t have to like it, you don’t have to live your life the same way but you definitely don’t have to criticize her for it.
I agree ith vcguitarist. There are things that happen in life and if it is something particularly painful we don't want to be reminded of it. This may be how Grahn feels about men in general. The hatred that men have shown both pysically and emotionally toward her life style may be her driving force to fight harder for the rights of gay women to never have to be trapped by men just to fit into societies ideals.
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